alt_ron: (Default)
[personal profile] alt_ron
So today in Transfiguration, Glozeman had us transfiguring other students into animals. Complete transformations, not just a beak here and some feathers or scales or claws there, y'know?

We hadn't done anything to prep for it at all. I mean, if you don't count turning porcupines into pincushions, which obviously doesn't begin to count.

It was just as horrible as you'd expect. And people got hurt. And he's probably going to make us do it again because he likes making us hurt each other. Right bastard, yeah?

Anywiz, two things. One is that I need to know what would happen if someone tried to transform me into something other than a snake. Could they do it? Could I hold the form if they managed it? Or would I just instinctively transform snakewise and give myself away? And is there any use trying to practise being transformed into, say, a horse to see if I can learn to hold that shape? Or would something really wonky happen?

Um. And the second thing is that somebody knew a spell none of us had ever heard of before. Seemed as if it was meant to turn an animagus back to his proper form. D'you know about that spell? It didn't do anything to the student who'd been transformed, so we don't know if it just wasn't cast right or if it didn't work because the student it was cast on isn't an animagus. Does it only work on animagi? Would it give me away if someone cast it on me? Or does it really work just fine on someone who's been spelled into a lizard and only failed because Corner couldn't cast it properly? I mean, with Corner, it could just be that.

Date: 2015-01-28 04:47 am (UTC)
alt_rachel: (Intent)
From: [personal profile] alt_rachel
I'd ask what you were supposed to learn from that exercise, but if he's a right bastard, I'm guessing the lesson was something like 'don't cross me.'

If someone tries to transform you into something other than a snake, they can probably do it, yeah. It stands to reason you'd instinctively transform to your own form, but you might be able to resist the instinct, at least for a while.

It's just a guess, though. I've never been transformed other than under my own power.

About that spell -- I hadn't thought about it in a while, but yeah, I've heard of it. Never that that cast on me, either. Could you test it out in private just to see what happens?

Date: 2015-01-28 04:54 am (UTC)
alt_sirius: (Thinking)
From: [personal profile] alt_sirius
Oh, yes, the forced reformation spell. Haven't thought about that in years. James and I learnt it as a precaution back when we were working on becoming Animagi. It works on any Animagus but only if they're in their natural form. James also wasn't certain it could work if the spell's object had not also achieved that form under his own power - I mean to say, if I forcibly transformed you into a snake, even though it's your natural form, the forced reformation would not actually work to get you out of it. It's meant only to aid an Animagus who's become stuck, you see. So we learned it but I think we only had to cast it once. Was it on Peter or James? Merlin, I can't remember.

To answer your other question ... I don't know for sure. You might be able to resist transfiguring yourself, actually, because a forced animal transfiguration isn't actually the same as an Animagus transformation at all, though they have some of the same roots. If a wizards changes you to an animal, as I understand it, you don't retain your own mind entirely, or at least, even less so than we do in our Animagus forms. I don't know how it is for you as a snake, but for me, I can sort of ... pick and choose which aspects of my dog form I want to focus on. I mean to say, certain things are sharper, anyway, and others are harder, but for the most part, if I really want to concentrate on thinking like a human, I can do it. If you're turned into an animal by someone else, though, that part of your brain doesn't often transfer with you. It's as if it gets shoved to one side and the animalistic brain takes over. Which is another reason it's so unnerving for so many people. So you might be able to assert yourself enough to change, or you might not. Then again, you might simply do it by sheer instinct. I suppose it would also depend on what sort of animal you got turned into, too. If you were a mongoose, you might like being that far less than you would, say, a lizard.

Speaking of the discomfort of it - I'm sorry you lot have to put up with that bastard.

Date: 2015-01-28 05:02 am (UTC)
alt_rachel: (Hedgehog)
From: [personal profile] alt_rachel
I'm pretty sure if you forcibly transformed Ron into a snake, or me into a hedghog, or you into a dog, our minds would catch up with the form in a moment or two. I mean, we've all spent a fair amount of time in our animal forms, we know how it feels and we're accustomed to that bit of our brain that definitely goes with the body -- you know?

Now I'm really curious.

Date: 2015-01-28 05:13 am (UTC)
alt_sirius: (Leaning)
From: [personal profile] alt_sirius
Oh, yes, I agree. What I'm saying is that if I transformed you into an anteater, or you turned me into a chipmunk, we'd be at a similar disadvantage to any other non-Animagus who's been transformed into an animal. We might be able to withstand it, but on the other hand, the feeling that we're simply in the WRONG form might be the only thing we can latch onto, if you see what I'm saying.

If I turned Remus into a regular timber wolf at any time other than the full moon, he might have some advantages but on the whole, he'd be closer to any other wizard who got forcibly transformed into a wolf, as far as thinking wolf-thoughts. (Actually, Remus had a book on that, if you're interested. I'm sure he'd be willing to discuss it. There were some experiments in the late 1960's with - as far as we could tell - willing participants.)

Oh! Remus knows the spell, too. We taught it to him, just in case.

Date: 2015-01-28 05:17 am (UTC)
alt_rachel: (Conversational)
From: [personal profile] alt_rachel
Yeah, the 'this is wrong, need to fix it' aspect of the forcible transformation is why that one author whose name I can't remember was convinced that any animagus transformed into some other form would involuntarily transform into their animagus form (and from there they could go back to human, if they wanted).

If anyone's actually tested that one, though, I haven't seen the book.

That's fascinating about werewolves. Was there some point to the research or was someone just curious and friends with enough werewolves to get some volunteers?

Date: 2015-01-28 05:28 am (UTC)
alt_sirius: (JC Superstar)
From: [personal profile] alt_sirius
There was a point to it. There was a point to all the research they did back then, though some of it was kinder to the werewolves than other experiments. If I recall right, mostly they were either about ways to cure the curse altogether or to mitigate the effects of transformation. This was all long before Wolfsbane Potion, of course. So they tried all sorts of things like, oh, 'If we transform someone to a werewolf in the middle of a sunny afternoon, what happens when he transforms naturally later in the month?' and 'If we've practised transforming a werewolf back into a human on sunny afternoons, can we successfully do it during the lunar cycle itself?' (You can imagine the answers were ... not what they were looking for.)

I do think it's likely that an Animagus could override a forced transformation to get into his or her own natural form. What I'm not sure about is whether that's easier or harder depending on how different the forced form is compared to the natural one.

Hm, it's an interesting thought, though. I mean to say, Ron's a snake. Would it be easier for him to transition from another animal into a snake if he'd been turned into, say, a newt. Or a fire crab? Or would it actually be harder because those forms are closer to how he expects to feel, compared to a horse or a thestral or an ocelot or a red-breasted robin?

Maybe this does bear a little experimentation.

Date: 2015-01-28 05:32 am (UTC)
alt_rachel: (Interested)
From: [personal profile] alt_rachel
Well, I could drop by 12GP this weekend and we could try this out on each other.

I think we're rather less likely to have someone forcibly transform us than Ron is. It might not be a bad idea to give that return-to-human-form spell a test run, though.

Date: 2015-01-28 05:35 am (UTC)
alt_sirius: (Laughing)
From: [personal profile] alt_sirius
One of the strangest invitations for a date I've ever had, but you're on.

Date: 2015-01-28 05:38 am (UTC)
alt_rachel: (Laughing)
From: [personal profile] alt_rachel
Maybe we should arrange for Molly or Poppy to stop by to put us back together afterward?

Date: 2015-01-28 05:42 am (UTC)
alt_sirius: (Okay)
From: [personal profile] alt_sirius
I think Poppy's coming to give Dora one final checkup before doomsday. So if you timed it right she might already be here. We could check their schedule just to make sure, though.

Date: 2015-01-28 05:40 am (UTC)
alt_sirius: (Short Hair)
From: [personal profile] alt_sirius
Nah, I don't think it works. Anyway. It's not important. I was just remembering.

Date: 2015-01-28 05:13 am (UTC)
alt_rachel: (Laughing)
From: [personal profile] alt_rachel
I think we're pretty sure we don't know, actually.

If you run any experiments, be sure to give us a full report! You can think of it as your contribution to the body of knowledge about animagi. Which is a rather under-researched field, in fact, since animagi are rare, and also frequently secretive, no matter what the laws about it say.

Date: 2015-01-28 05:16 am (UTC)
alt_sirius: (Open Chest)
From: [personal profile] alt_sirius
It never used to be like that. Well, at least, the people trying to kill each other were just students behaving like baboons, anyway. I'm no exception!

Rachel's right, though: We have no idea. You might be trapped. You might default to your snake form. You might feel mild discomfort compared to your classmates. Honestly, could be anything.

I realise we're being extraordinarily helpful, here, sorry.

Date: 2015-01-28 05:17 am (UTC)
alt_sirius: (Serious)
From: [personal profile] alt_sirius
Wait. So why did Corner know the spell, when you hadn't heard of it and you've been learning from Albus?

Date: 2015-01-28 05:24 am (UTC)
alt_rachel: (Mulling)
From: [personal profile] alt_rachel
Who's Corner? Not one of ours? Which House?

Date: 2015-01-28 05:30 am (UTC)
alt_sirius: (Contemplative)
From: [personal profile] alt_sirius
That might be worth finding out. Is he reasonably matey or is he one of the gits?

In any case, if he's working on the spell, you've got a good reason to ask him about it. You'll get to the source faster than we could get it to you. Since I don't imagine you fancy wasting part of your next Hogsmeade trip meeting up?

Date: 2015-01-28 05:34 am (UTC)
alt_sally_anne: (6_Measuring)
From: [personal profile] alt_sally_anne
Michael Corner's got a galleon but he's not in the Order because he doesn't fancy taking a lot of risks.

He's a Ravenclaw.

Date: 2015-01-28 05:36 am (UTC)
alt_sally_anne: (6_This makes me nervous.)
From: [personal profile] alt_sally_anne
And he's also my ex-boyfriend, so if someone asks him about the spell maybe it shouldn't be me, or Ron? I mean it's not that we're not friendly. It just might be better to have someone else ask him about it. Harry, maybe.

Date: 2015-01-28 05:22 am (UTC)
alt_rachel: (Sympathetic)
From: [personal profile] alt_rachel
WAIT. I remember Glozeman. He was teaching Charms for part of the time I was in school.

He was dreadful! I'm sorry. Really made me appreciate Acton.

Date: 2015-01-28 05:41 am (UTC)
alt_rachel: (Secrets)
From: [personal profile] alt_rachel
Yeah. He knew who I was. I was not one of his favourite students.

He never told anyone else who I was. Just let me spend a lot of time thinking he was about to. Because that's the sort of thing he finds very, very amusing.

Date: 2015-01-28 05:42 am (UTC)
alt_sally_anne: (6_Horrified)
From: [personal profile] alt_sally_anne
Yeah.

He hasn't changed much.

Date: 2015-01-28 05:55 am (UTC)
alt_rachel: (Rueful)
From: [personal profile] alt_rachel
Oh, not that I was an animagus.

He knew I was Rachel Brodie before I was Rachel Lamont. It's never exactly been a secret. But the other students didn't know.

Date: 2015-01-28 04:33 pm (UTC)
alt_rachel: (Shadowed)
From: [personal profile] alt_rachel
After my parents were murdered, I was adopted by my aunt and uncle, and they had me take their last name -- Lamont, rather than Brodie.

I did rather want it kept secret. It wasn't that my parents were 'traitors' -- given when they died, they were holdouts from the old regime, but officially there's a classification for people who were misguided and thus tragic but unavoidable casualties rather than enemies of the state.

I mean, put the shoe on the other foot for a minute. Let's say we won the war next week. Obviously there are people in MLE who are criminals, who we'd put on trial or even execute, if we could catch them. But then you've got people like -- well, think of the people you've met at your internships who are hardworking and sensible and really in it to catch criminals. Some days they might be arresting people who haven't done anything wrong, but they're still in a very different category from Barty Crouch. We might not keep them in MLE (though, frankly, we'd have to; imagine trying to run MLE with just the Longbottoms and Kingsley and the two of us, we'd go spare in two days) but we wouldn't send them off to Azkaban, either.

When Voldemort's lackeys won the war, there were people who continued to oppose them, like the Longbottoms and Kingsley, but there were people who'd been opposing them who just immediately switched sides, like Scrimgeour. My father -- well, everyone who knew him was certain that if he'd survived, he'd have gone on the run with the Longbottoms and Kingsley and the rest. But just as we'd probably turn a blind eye to quite a bit from the lower level Enforcers, in the hopes of keeping some sort of order after the revolution, no one was inclined to dig too deeply into what my parents would have done. So officially, they were never traitors.

Still, 'officially not a traitor' and 'what my mates at school would have thought' were two different things. And I had a bit of an object lesson in what my life could be like, if people thought I came from a family of traitors, because of Tonks, and how she was treated. And I was a bit of a coward. Unlike Tonks. So I wanted everyone to think of me as Rachel Lamont. Rachel Brodie could stay buried with her parents.

MLE knows, obviously. If my parents had survived to go on the run, or if my father had refused to swear loyalty to the new regime and submit to legilimency and veritaserum and all the rest, it's very unlikely I'd have been allowed to join. As it was, the business with Clarkson probably nearly kept me out. It probably helped that the records were sketchy and the only one who really remembered what had happened that day was Dolohov, and he was out of the Protectorate at the time.

Date: 2015-01-28 04:38 pm (UTC)
alt_rachel: (Default)
From: [personal profile] alt_rachel
Also, this is something you might think about paying a bit of attention to, when you're working, especially if there are Enforcers with you. Who should we fire for being a miserable brute, no matter what they say about their loyalties, when we win? Who should we keep, because they were conscientious and no rougher than they had to be? Keep track. We'll need to know that. You're in a better position than most of us to see that sort of thing.

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